shadows

“好莱坞报道”“圆桌会议”原文+自制翻译 part 6

Is it harder when you’re a star? The media picks on every single thing you do.

当你是明星的时候会不会更困难?媒体总是挑剔着你的一举一动。

Tatum:They pick on us all. And I’m talking about “us all” meaning pedestrians. Everyone gets picked on. I don’t think it’s just because we’re up on the screen.

塔图姆:他们挑剔着我们所有人。我说的“我们所有人”是指在生活中行走的所有人。每个人都被盯上了。我并不认为单单只是我们在荧幕上活动的人。

 

Do you like being a star?

你享受成为明星吗?

Tatum:I don’t really look at it that way. I’ve been afforded a lot of opportunity in this world and I’ve tried to walk through every door that I’ve been given, and some of them have been great on the other side and other one’s haven’t.

塔图姆:我其实不会这样看待自己。我已经撞上了这个世界上的很多时机,也努力好好利用每一次的机会。其中有一些机会是非常不错的,而有一些却不是。

 

Which doors weren’t great?

哪一些是不好的呢?

Tatum:The pressure of what school is projected as, when you’re growing up -- that going to college is the answer, and to me it wasn’t. I went and I didn’t get it. And I failed at it miserably. And I felt like a failure for it. And so I went and tried to find another door.

Keaton:That’s not a failure at all. To me, that’s a victory. He said, “I’m going to do what’s me.”

塔图姆:譬如学校的规程操作的压力。当人们成长,大学就是成长的答案。可对我而言却不是,我进了大学,却没有寻找到答案。我把它当做我的失败,并且摔得很惨。于是我便又试着寻找下一扇机会之门。

基顿:那绝不是失败。对我而言,那是胜利。他会说:“我要去做真正的我。”

 

Benedict, I’ve always felt you resist fame to some degree.

本尼啊,我一直觉得你多多少少都有点抵触名气。

Cumberbatch:There’s so many strands of it, aren’t there? If you mean being scrutinized in your public life, which isn’t your work; if you mean requirements of your time which distract your focus and your energy from what actually brought you to that point where you’re being distracted, that’s a complete Catch-22: The more work you do,the more attention there is. You try to escape by dissolving into work, and it keeps catching up with you every time you stop because it’s part of the process of work now, to publicize it. But I feel it’s just [about] getting used to it, and knowing how to play with that and have fun, which I do. I really do.

本尼:名气有太多牵绊了,不是吗?如果你是指被大家仔细审查自己的公众生活,而这又不属于你自己的工作范畴之内;如果你是指分散你注意力和精力的一些时间上的需求的话,那就是绝对的Catch-22:你工作得越多,获得的注意力也越多。【注:Catch-22,第22条军规;亦指“不可逾越的障碍”(美国J.Heller小说的书名)】 你想逃离,试着将自己融入工作中,而每停下工作,那些注意力都一直紧跟着你不放,结果现在宣传它都成为你工作的一部分了。但我感觉自己还是在试着去适应它,怎样平衡它又从中得到乐趣。这就是我试着做的,我真正在做。

Do you have a role model whose career you emulate?

你有一个想要赶上他的职业生涯的偶像吗?

Cumberbatch:We talked before the tape was running about Stephen Dillane’s Hamlet when I was 17. That had a massive impact on me -- the sort of essential, quiet, still truth of what he did. Nobody else was Hamlet but him.

Hawke:And then you saw mine!

Redmayne:I’ve never said this to you, Tim, but when I was a kid, one of the first things I saw was A Midsummer Night’s Dream at the National Theatre. Tim was playing Bottom, and it was all set in mud and there was a contortionist playing Puck, this woman.

Spall:I had a French-Canadian contortionist on my back when I was trying to do Shakespearen comedy. And it felt like hell. You’d go backstage and there were people wearing verruca socks, which are worn [to prevent] plantar warts, you know? It was in massive pile of water, and one day somebody came in and said, “You’ve not heard the latest. Someone’s done a poo in the mud.” I said, “What are you talking about? I’m lying in that before the audience comes in!” I went to the stage doorkeeper who had been there for years, wonderful women. I said, “You’ll never guess what I’ve just heard. You know the fairies who are all diving around the mud? Someone’s done a poo in it.” She said, “Oh, we’ve had a phantom shitter at the Royal National Theatre for years.” (Laughs.) Here’s a pantheon of the most brilliant classical actors in the world, and someone was dropping a log in the [mud].

Cumberbatch:I’ve worked in the National Theatre, but I haven’t poo there. I have peed there.

本尼:我们老早之前就说到了我17岁时看的Stephen Dillane版的哈姆雷特【注:Stephen Dillane斯蒂芬·迪兰,英国著名戏剧演员。】,这对我的影响绝对是巨大的。他所表现的要素、宁静还有不变的真实让我相信,在此之前没人可以是哈姆雷特,他就是哈姆雷特。

霍克:然后你又看见了我演的版本!

小雀斑:Tim,我以前还没告诉过你这个。当我还是个孩童时,我记忆中最早的一些事情其一就是在国家大剧院看《仲夏夜之梦》。Tim扮演的是Bottom【注:Bottom波顿,《仲夏夜之梦》中的织工,戏中戏饰皮拉摩斯。】,场景设定在泥浆之中,还有一个女性柔术演员扮演Puck【注:Puck派克,又名Robin Goodfellow好汉罗宾,被仙王派去寻洒花汁。】。

斯波:那时当我要表演莎式喜剧时,我就会背上这位法裔加拿大的柔术演员,那感觉真是糟透了啊。你走向后台,有人会在穿防疣袜,是为了避免脚底长疣,因为场景设定在巨大的水堆中。某天,有人进来就说:“你们肯定没听过这个最新八卦,有人在泥浆里拉了一泡屎。”我说:“说啥呢?我在观众来之前就一直呆在那里了啊。”我去找舞台的看门人,她是位人超级好的女士,我说:“你肯定猜不到我刚听了啥。你知道仙女们都会跳进泥浆周边吧?有人刚刚在里面拉了屎。”她说:“天惹,咱们在皇家国家大剧院里的幻影清屎器都存在多少年了。”(笑)这就是世界上最杰出的古典演员们的帕特农神庙,有人在泥里做了个记号。

本尼:我也在国家大剧院工作过,不过我可没在那里拉屎。我在那儿尿尿了。

“好莱坞报道”“圆桌会议”原文+自制翻译 part 5

Channing, what was the biggest challenge for you in the Foxcatcher?

查宁,你在拍《狐狸猎手》的时候遇到的最大挑战是什么?

Hawke:Kicking ass. Beating up Mark Ruffalo.

Tatum:Getting my head kicked in every day by Bennett [Miller].

Hawke:Did you really make Mark’s nose bleed? I wondered in that scene, it looked like you really popped him in the head.

Tatum:I had never done anything like this before and I had no idea how to approach it other than just to talk to Mark Schultz [the real-life wrestler I play]. He’s a very interesting person -- he’s so factual, he knows what move so-and-so did in the ’84 Olympics, and he just reels off all these things. And you’re trying to sort through them all. I just stared to get rid of all the data that he was telling me about his life, and I just clicked into [what he said:] “I never wanted to win. I just didn’t want to lose.”

Hawke:But what is the difference between not losing and winning? What does that mean?

Tatum:For him? It was fear of not being the person that he saw himself as, I think. Dave, his older brother, was this shinning example of something he knew he could never be. He was never going to be this charismatic individual that everyone flocked to. So he decided to go the other way, and he wanted everyone to be afraid of him. He didn’t want anyone to get close to him. And I think that’s a really lonely way to choose.

Cumberbatch:Did he have script approval? Did he looked at the script at all? And did you feel, “I need something from you, but you might not get anything back except something that’s going to upset you.”

Tatum:That was my fear. Because I knew all these things he was telling me he wanted weren’t in the script -- you know, the retribution of people that he felt wronged him. I was terribly afraid that he wouldn’t --

Cumberbatch:What was the seduction of getting him to open up?

Tatum:It wasn’t. He was completely free and open with me, as far as I could tell. Within the first seven seconds of talking, he was welling up with tears. He’s a very emotional person, and I think all of it was pretty overwhelming for us both.

Keaton:It’s not surprising that he remembered every move. Athletes, they’re not like the rest of us. It’s a different type of mentality. Baseball players, they’ll remember the pitch, what the wind was doing, they’ll remember everything. And there’s something in particular about wrestlers. I come from a large family, and one of my brothers was a wrestler. He’s like us and he’s totally unlike us. This intense determination.

Tatum:Wrestling is very similar in a metaphorical way to acting: You’re wrestling; you’re literally in a fight with [a role]. Because in wrestling you’re not just fighting someone else, you’re fighting what’s going on with you. You’re in a suffocating situation, and there’s no resting. You can’t take a minute; you’re constantly in this uncomfortable state of being attacked. You’re dealing with a lot of emotions, a lot of fear -- not that I see acting as exactly that, but there are some parallels.

霍克:踢屁股,毒打Mark Ruffalo【注:Mark Ruffalo马克·鲁法洛,美国实力派演员,与塔图姆一起出演《狐狸猎手》。】。

塔图姆:每天都被Bennett踢头【注:Bennett Miller本尼特·米勒,美国知名导演,为《狐狸猎手》的导演。】。

霍克:你真的把Mark的鼻子打流血了吗?我看到那一幕的时候很疑惑,那看起来真的像是你打了他的头。

塔图姆:我以前从没这样干过,除了跟Mark Schultz【原文注,塔图姆扮演的摔跤手的原型。】谈论外我根本不知道如何去接近他的头。Schultz本人真实风趣,在1984年的奥林匹克上他清楚对手的每一步每一个动作,还能一口气把这些都说出来,而你自己就只能不断整理他所说的。我开始试图忘却他对我说的关于他人生的事,只是抓住他说的那句:我从没想过要赢,我只是不想输。

霍克:但是“不输”和“赢”有什么区别呢?这句话是什么意义?

塔图姆:对他来说吗?我觉得是他害怕无法成为他所看见的自己。他永远也成为不了像他哥哥Dave那样的榜样,永远也不会成为万人迷。于是他决定走另一条路,想让每一个人都畏惧他,不希望人们接近于他。我认为他选择的真的是一条很孤单孤独的道路。

本尼:他有审核了的剧本吗?他看过那个剧本吗?你有感觉“我需要从你身上获得一些东西,但可能除了失望外而一无所获”吗?

塔图姆:这就是我的担心。因为所有他告诉我他想要的东西都没在剧本里,他感受到的所有人们对他的怨气令他有口难辩。我极其害怕他不会——

本尼:是怎样引诱他畅谈的?

塔图姆:不,并不是去诱惑。以我对他的认知,他本身性情就随性开放。在我们第一次谈话不到七秒钟,他的泪水就涌了上来。他是一个感性的人,并且所有的那一切对我们俩来说都是不可抗拒的。

基顿:他能记得每一个动作并不令人感到奇怪,因为运动员们本身就与众不同。而那是另一种思维方式。譬如棒球运动员记得棒球场,了解风的运动还有其他的方方面面。摔跤手也有他的特殊面。我生于一个大家庭中,我的一个兄弟就是摔跤手。他看起来与我们无异但又完全和我们不同,这就是拼搏的决心。

塔图姆:摔跤和表演在隐含层面上也非常相似:你在摔跤;你在和一个角色斗争。因为当你摔跤时,你并不仅仅是对抗对手,更是对抗你的命运你的周遭。就像你已经快要窒息了,无路可走。一分钟都不能放松,持续处在令你感到难受的状态,警惕着攻击。同时你也在平衡着你的情绪,面对着你的恐惧,并不是说表演在这方面和摔跤完全一样,但他们还是有相似之处的。

 

Fear of what?

惧怕什么?

Tatum:Fear of doing it honestly, of giving everything you could have given to it. And not walking away and being like, “God, I didn’t do the work for that one.”

塔图姆:老实说,就是害怕能否将你所获取的信息都表达表现出来。并不是一边走开一边说着“天哪,我还没有为角色的这个方面做准备。”

“好莱坞报道”“圆桌会议”原文+自制翻译 part 3

Channing, you initially turned down Foxcatcher. Was it because you didn’t identify with the character?

查宁,你最开始是推掉了狐狸猎手的角色的,这是因为你当时没有找到与这个角色的认同感吗?

Tatum:I wouldn’t really say that I turned it down. The movie wasn’t clear to me. But you’re right, I didn’t understand it. I didn’t know what the movie was saying, [but] this was after I’d down, like, my second film, and I just had no idea what I was doing as an actor or as a storyteller or anything.

塔图姆:我不会说我真的拒绝了这部电影,只是这部电影对我来讲并不是那么清晰。不过你说的对,我没有理解到这部电影的精髓,我不知道这部电影到底在讲述什么,这些都是我完成之后才明白的。这像是我的第二部电影,只是作为一个演员,一个讲故事的人或者其他谁谁谁,我完全不知道我在做什么。

 

What’s the biggest mistake you’ve made?

你们犯过的最大的错误是什么?

Cumberbatch:Wow, you’re not holding back.

Timothy Spall:I think one of the biggest mistakes you could make is, you think that you know enough -- because you can’t, otherwise you’d stop and you’d just keep repeating yourself.

Hawke:It’s funny. I did a movie, I was about 29 years old. And I was feeling really confident at that time. And I remember being very frustrated with the director because I felt he was an idiot and he was really holding me back from doing the work I wanted to do. I felt this really need to tell everybody that I knew more than they did, you know? And when I think back on it now, I feel so embarrassed. There was a moment, and then a couple of years pass, you turn 30. All of a sudden, I saw hallways of things I didn’t know. And the older I get, the more I would never be frustrated with a director like that. There’s a great Brando quote: “You have to meet every director as your kind of spiritual spouse.” You just have to marry them to make the movie they want to make. If you watch Last Tango in Paris, that is an actor completely committed to that story -- and he’s inside a very dangerous film, a film that deals with erotica. Human sexuality is something nobody wants to talk about on a real, about level: mourning, death, fear of death, fear of getting old, sex. I mean, you’re talking about Turing and being gay, and I can’t help but think about 20 years ago how radical it was for an actor to play a gay person. When River Phoenix was in My Own Private Idaho, this was about a young kid who wants to be gay. It was radical that he was doing that.

本尼:哇哦,你还这么问地这么凶猛。

蒂莫西斯波:我认为人犯的大错误之一就是自认为自己知道的足够了。因为你不可能什么都知道了,不然你就会停止你前行的脚步,然后不停地再重复你自己。

霍克:说来很讽刺。我在我29岁的时候拍过一部电影,当时我的自我感觉相当良好,特别自信。我还记得我对导演表现得愤愤不平,因为那时我觉得他是个挡我道的白痴,而且我非常想告诉每一个人我懂的东西都比他们多。当现在我回想那个时候的事时,我感到特别窘迫尴尬。几年过后,你30岁了,突然就有那么一刻,一瞬间,我看到了还有一抹多我不知道的事情。我年纪越大,我反而越不会像对之前那样对待其他导演了。Brando【注:Marlon Brando马龙白兰度,美国传奇演员。】有一句名言:“你必须待每一位导演如你的灵魂配偶。”你需要成为导演的灵魂配偶来拍导演想拍的电影。如果你看过Last Tango in Paris 【注:Last Tango in Paris巴黎最后的探戈,为贝纳尔多·贝托鲁奇执导影片,由马龙白兰度和Maria Schneider玛利亚·施耐德主演。】,那就是一个演员完全地将自己投入进一个故事的例子——他处于一个危险的色情电影故事中心。人类的性是一个没有人会想主动谈及却又极真实的东西,同样的还有:哀悼,死亡,对死亡的恐惧,对衰老的担忧惧怕,性。我是想说,当谈到Turing图灵和同性恋时,我不禁想到20年前,对一个要饰演同性恋者的演员来说会遇到多么全新彻底的挑战。譬如在My Own Private Idaho【注:My Own Private Idaho我私人的爱达荷,是格斯·范·桑特执导的电影,由瑞凡菲尼克斯和Keanu Reeves基努里维斯主演。】中的River Phoenix【注:River Phoenix瑞凡·菲尼克斯(1970~1993),美国著名演员兼音乐家,是同为著名演员的Joaquin Phoenix华昆·菲尼克斯的哥哥。】,这部电影是关于一个想要出柜的青年。在当时,瑞凡那么做是完全全新彻底的。

Today, is there any threshold that you can’t across?

目前你们有无法忍受不能理解的事物吗?

Spall:Pedophilia, probably.

斯波:或许是娈童癖吧。

 

Could you make The Last Temptation of Christ today and get away with it?

如今你们能拍The Last Temptation of Christ【注:The Last Temptation of Christ基督最后的诱惑,由马丁·斯科塞斯执导,威廉达福和哈维凯特尔主演,于1988年上映。】并且能够避开大众责备吗?

Hawke:Martin Scorsese could. It was dangerous at that time. He would have trouble now.

Keaton:The Farrelly brothers might have a hard time.

霍克:Martin Scorsese【注:Martin Scorsese马丁·斯科塞斯,美国著名导演。】可以。那个年代拍这种片很危险,如果是现在的话他估计会遇到麻烦事儿。

基顿:Farrelly兄弟【注:The Farrelly bros法拉利兄弟,是指Peter Farrelly和Bobby Farrelly,俩人都为美国导演编剧制片,都是低俗喜剧的专家,主要作品有《阿呆和阿瓜》等。】可能也有过一段困难期。